For physicians- Dollars per RVU survey


#1

So I am trying to gather data about dollars per RVU. There was a recent White Coat Investor thread on this in a forum. I am currently at a non-RVU system but previously had been and was getting quite frustrated as there was no transparency. So I figure I should remedy this.

I am starting a Survey Monkey survey to try and compile some data about this across the country. I am posting here for medical practitioners to fill out. When I get some data I will post it on my side- DadsDollarsandDetbs.com

Here is the link.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/DTRHJBB

-EJ


#2

Interesting! There is always some level of obfuscation in RVUs, especially if you work in a large corporate setting. Even in hospital-based medicine, a doctor’s revenue generating ability often isn’t reflected in the quarterly reports (like how many specialists that you consult, and how much additional technical fees they can generate for the hospital).


#3

Our work is measured in ASA units, so I’ve got nothing to offer. Would MGMA data or other survey data help? Some university libraries will have the information. I believe Jon @ Contract Diagnostics might be another resource.


#4

Always some level of obscurity. I think it allows for easier control of physicians as more and more non-physicians run hospital systems.


#5

What is an ASA (other than short hand for aspirin, which you should definitely chew and swallow if having an MI)?

MGMA? May I ask what that is also.

Now I feel quite ignorant but please enlighten me.

Thanks for the contact for Jon. I will reach out.

-EJ


#6

American Sociey of Anesthesiologists. Explanation here.

MGMA does comprehensive compensation surveys. AGMA and Sullivan Cotter also do similar surveys.

:beers:
-PoF


#7

I checked out the website. Seems interesting. Still data you have to pay for…I will see what happens with this survey. If it is a dead end, then so be it…as they say, better to try and fail then to never try at all.

Thanks,
-Ej


#8

How are you compensated at your practice? AMGA and MGMA releases survey data on physician compensation annually. They charge a hefty fee for their publication, but many practices and hospitals use this data for new hires.


#9

I looked at your survey, but did not complete it as my practice does not use RVUs. We use some cockamamie scheme of current and historical production. I’m getting quite frustrated, because after 12 yrs with the practice, I’m the second highest producer of 6 physicians, yet I’m quite sure I’m underpaid. My pay is 12.5% of my gross charges. More senior physicians make about 18-20% of their gross charges. My compensation went down for the past 2 yrs despite my high production. I agree that there is little transparency in physician pay. Medscape has a salary survey but it doesn’t control for hours worked or production. I would like to know what a female pediatrician with 12 yrs experience in private practice in the Southeast with a 50:50 mix of public and private insurance should make.


#10

I just got introduced to AMGA and MGMA. Thanks for letting me know but it looks like you have to pay for it. I am trying to come up with something we can all access for free. It may not be the most accurate, but if enough people fill out the survey (the n grows) then it will be more valid. It does depend on individuals to be honest.

Regarding my compensation, I work for a large physician group and we are all paid relatively the same in each subspecialty. The work is divided fairly equally (equal amount of call, clinic, imaging, etc.). We are evaluated on patient satisfaction scores (who isn’t these days), new consult availability (just making sure we have slots for new patient visits), and timelines on responding to patients. We do not look at how many echos we read, consults we saw, etc. There is a bonus for partners and another bonus based on how the group did all year.

I read this and see it does not clarify anything.

I am curious in this stuff because my last job was supposedly RVUbased and I got really frustrated because I worked hard. Was a good soldier. Earned lots of RVUS, but still made similar amounts to individuals who were arguably slacking off. I think if you are in a physician group where people work relatively the same, then paying everyone the same makes sure.

Interesting regarding the questions for gender, years experience, and percent public and private insurance. I will add these to the survey. Thanks for the input and hang in there!
-EJ


#11

I quickly read up on work RVUs, pulled last year’s production statements, and contributed to your survey. I found this: http://www.beckershospitalreview.com/compensation-issues/2015-physician-compensation-work-rvu-by-specialty.html
I’m interested to see what you come up with. Have been thinking about discussing my compensation with my partners. I have asked for a meeting, and would like to come from a position of strength rather than seem like I’m whining.


#12

@Dads_Dollars_Debts @PepperPotts I’d be happy to chat offline if you guys had any questions about work productivity. Btw, I do have a post coming up on Tuesday about academic medicine (shameless self-plug ;-))

Ultimately what your take home has to do with where your revenue is going towards in your practice. That is the black box in most systems.


#13

I think having a position of strength is a must because as you said “you don’t want to come up whining.” That is why I am trying to collect data (thanks for taking the survey) that I can share freely with everyone. Thus far Ihave had about 50 survey responses, so not large enough to demonstrate a true snapshot, but hopefully over the next few weeks it will grow. I was planning on publishing first results when it hits a 100 responses.

Also thanks for sharing the article. It was interesting and they stated compensation and wRVU production. What they did not do was a dollar per RVU amount (though this is easily calculated). Based on that article I was grossly underpaid at my last job.


#14

SmartMoney,
You have been looking into this too lately? Maybe we could team up on our thoughts for a two part post- one on each site. I am interested that you can weed out the part of your revenue going to your practice in academic medicine?

-EJ